Insurance Journal Forums

I have a wealthy Doctor that has watercraft (yachts, cigarette boats, jet skis, etc.) that are owned by the insured's single entity LLC.
I am able to insure them on the underlying policies by having the Doctor as the named Insured and adding the LLC's as AI's. That works fine for the underlying, but the Umbrella/Excess markets are refusing to cover anything that is owned by an LLC., even if the LLC is just an AI.
I have gone to Scottsdale, Lloyds, Chubb and many others. All say no to the LLC's.
Any ideas out there as to how I can insure the excess for these LLC's on a personal lines product?

This is commonplace in the affluent personal lines market and If Chubb cannot do this I"d be surprised as they deal with these types of scenarios all the time as primary players in the affluent personal lines marketplace

Thanks, Lucky Guy. However, the home is on the coast, in a wooded canyon in Malibu. Chubb will not write the HO, and they require the HO to write the Umbrella.
Any other thoughts?

I'd try the AIG Private Client Group. You can get access thru some GA's. Superior Access, ATM Insurance as well. Your next option could be Lexington which is AIGPCG non admitted.

Thanks, Again, Lucky One. Unfortunatley, I have submitted to both. AIG will not due to speed of some jet skis (80 MPH) and Lex will not do because too many watercraft.
This is a tough one.

I have seen Frontier General in Oakland do personal umbrella's over a variety of higher-risk underlying exposures. They used to be more flexible when they used State National, but they've written a lot of business with AIG and may still be able to help you.

Thanks. I'll give them a call and see what they can do.

Semi - i - guy... look into what some of the watercraft specialty carriers offer. These guys are providing coverage for very wealthy yacht clients that also have all the toys, from tenders to 400 feet! Go to some of the yachting websites. I'd be willing to bet that they have markets for both the primary and excess, even if there is commercial use of the watercraft, like charters or dinner cruises, weddings, etc...

I know my "Yachting" magazine has lots of ads that profess to do all this stuff. You might need to stop looking in the traditional markets and start looking at the marine markets.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes!

Swymmer

Thanks, WLUNDAY. I have gone to two marine GA's and both have declined. One was due to the LLC's and the other has restrictions on the waters navigated which will not work for our insured.
I just found a Company (Hudson) that is providing a quote. However, if there are any more suggestions out there, I would love to hear them.

I would try to access the Underwriter at Chubb who handles family Offices. The other market would be AIG Private Client division.

simiinsuranceguy wrote:I have a wealthy Doctor that has watercraft (yachts, cigarette boats, jet skis, etc.) that are owned by the insured's single entity LLC.
I am able to insure them on the underlying policies by having the Doctor as the named Insured and adding the LLC's as AI's. That works fine for the underlying, but the Umbrella/Excess markets are refusing to cover anything that is owned by an LLC., even if the LLC is just an AI.
I have gone to Scottsdale, Lloyds, Chubb and many others. All say no to the LLC's.
Any ideas out there as to how I can insure the excess for these LLC's on a personal lines product?

My only thought is, and you don't say anything about it, why doesn't the carrier that the home and auto are with want to do it. Are they placed with different carriers? My experience has been that the RV's can be with other carriers as long as they are rated 'A' by Best and proof provided with the submission.
Another thought is that usually the umbrella will follow the underlying policy liability coverages. Since umbrellas are not an ISO policy, that doesn't really mean anything.

Thanks, GregCW. The home is with a non-admitted due to the brush. They do not write Umbrellas. The auto is with Travelers who require the HO to write an Umbrella. They will not write the HO due to brush.
The RV problem is that a few exceed 80mph and most Umbrella Companies will not allow over 40 or 50 mph. Some will, but those then have restrictions on the LLC's. (Keep in mind that the LLC's are presenting the biggest problem)
Finally, Umbrellas do not follow the underlying form. They "drop down" after the Self-insured Retention for issues not covered by the Underlying. What you are refering to is a "follow form excess" or just an Excess. That will just follow the Underlying form and not provide coverage for something not covered via underlying coverage.
Thanks again!

This was one of the things that drove me crazy when I was on the agency side. Wealthy folk thought it would make sense to have the business own their toys so they could write off the insurance cost, then were stunned when the insurance cost was higher due to it being owned by a business. Also was harder to find markets just like you are finding here.

This was a tricky one. Simi-I-guy submitted this risk to me (Anderson & Murison, Inc). We were able to offer a stand-alone personal umbrella quote through an admitted market.

Most carriers are more understanding that "toys" and houses are "owned" by an insured's LLC(s). If the primary liability coverage is on a personal lines form, we now have a couple of markets that are much more willing write the personal umbrella coverage for these types of risks.

Please feel free to call or email me should you need assitance with any hard to place personal umbrella policies.

Kris Pappas
Manager, Personal Umbrella Department
Anderson & Murison, Inc

I strongly recommend that anyone interested in insuring LLCs or Family Trusts go to the following weblinks and print these insurance articles.

http://www.iiaba.net/vu/nonmember/article1.htm

http://www.irmi.com/Expert/Articles/200 ... ann12.aspx