Why am I still an Agent?

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d's insurance store
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by d's insurance store »

beyert1 wrote:I have been going back and forth on charging a fee for service like many of the Agents do. My problem, unlike "Smalltownagent" is that I have new offices all around me. In the last 2 years 5 new offices have opened up within 2 miles of my office. Many of these are former captives who did not make it and since they have invested so much into their license they figured might as was well give it a try being an independent. The challenge becomes how do I compete against agents who represent the same companies I do? Does the company care? Nope. They just want the policies sold.


As for having a brick and mortar office, I am thinking about giving mine up. I don't have clients who come in anymore. I have lost all my agents because they stopped making any money and it is just me in a 400 sq ft office. I hardly have any clients who come to my office, maybe 2 a month and I deal with most of my clients via email, phone and Skype. What is this telling us? The personal touch is going away from this business. I bet I could sit naked at my desk, not a pretty picture to think of to be honest, for a day and no one would know because they would not come into my office. I am waiting to hear," well you are not doing enough advertising and the like." Well, if you think spending almost $4,000 on mailers, emails, traveling to car dealerships, mortgage brokers, banks, real estate office and anyone else who will listen to me is not advertising then I must be an idiot. I keep asking my accounts reps what is working for other agents since my actions are not working and I love the answer - "You know, I just don't know because it is slow for others as well." OK, if it is slow for them why are you telling me I need to do more business? I am at a loss.
The 'Broker Fee' business model is no longer thriving, at least in California, where agency/broker now has to be strictly defined. Agents cannot charge a fee, broker's can, but have to prove or acknowledge that there has been extraordinary work done to warrant the fee. At one time, maybe 10 years ago, agencies that could charge fees were plundering clients and that in many cases, the fee income exceeded commission income. This resulted in a major consumer backlash because the majority of those paying fees were from the lower economic demographic as well informed consumers would run away from an agency adding an extra $50+ to a new policy just because they could.

As for needing a lonely brick and mortar office when you perceive there's less of a need for a main street presence, there is a growing trend to do what you're proposing. If you value your privacy at home, then indeed, a meet-up at Starbucks or its equivalent can fulfill a face to face need.

The success or failure of promotional efforts is, at least in my opinion after reading about such ventures here and listening to nearby agency owners, is largely a function of geography. In smaller locales, where a personal touch is still appreciated, then 'old' media may still work. In larger population areas, where competition is stiffer, then nothing may work. You also need a volatile population where people are constantly coming and going and need to contact a local insurance source, and if there's a lot of population stability, that works against your promotional efforts.

None of this is the end of the world for smaller independent agencies. It's just a very changed world that may demand lowered expectations and changed tactics in order to survive. My prognosis remains the same, however, fewer and fewer small insurance retailers going forward, through no fault of the agency owner, just due to society's changing needs and expectations in the narrow context of personal and small biz insurance products.
detroitgirl2
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by detroitgirl2 »

This is an interesting post because I have an unused P&C license but I'm thinking about adding insurance to my existing business.
In my area it looks like State Farm offices have stopped opening but Allstate has opened many new offices. I think these are new 'franchises' that have'nt found out if the market is there yet.

Here are my questions. Have you considered adding health insurance to your locations? If not, why?

For 'small town' - did you pay a significant premium for that book of business you bought? I researched the possibility of buying a small book of business and the prices seem high to me. The purchaser definately would have to maintain and grow the book because the seller or financer gets the premiums for a few years before any profit is left over.

I respect you guys having the expertise, so tell me - why would'nt I be able to add a full offering of insurance to a tax office?

P&C, life, and health? Thanks for your time.

Detroitgirl
d's insurance store
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by d's insurance store »

Detroit, you're not giving enough info to make an informed suggestion.

Do you run a 'large' tax office with lots of preparers working all year with commercial and personal clients? Is it just you sitting at a desk, swamped between February and April 15th each year and then you sit and listen to calm music the rest of the year?

Insurance done right is not done on a part time basis. Agents who are successful make it look easy, much like, I'm sure, tax preparer's, but there are all kinds of things that go into learning the skills, getting the education and keeping up with trends and running a business that aren't displayed on the client side of the desk.

Let's say you add personal lines P&C, auto and home, into your mix. You use you current client list for prospects. Well, the P&C products are primarily sold on price. What are you going to bring to the market place that isn't being offered to your prospective insurance clients now? Price? You? Let's say you find some way to sell competitive products. Fast forward to March 20th of any year. Your phones are ringing off the hook with requests for tax appointments. Now an auto client calls with a claim and expects you do be there for him or her through the process, just like their former agent was. Agents don't make any money handling claims. Hmmmmm, the phone lines are jammed, some with potential revenue, some with service issues...hmmmmm, tax prep with revenue or insurance claim stuff without revenue...hmmmm, which phone to answer? This is the kind of issue you're going to face if you treat the insurance side of things as a part time revenue stream.

Keep investigating. You've got a long way to go before a decision can be made intelligently.
detroitgirl2
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by detroitgirl2 »

Thanks! We have 3 active offices totalling approx. 25 part time employees and 1400 clients mostly individual returns and some business returns. I hear you when you say don't expect part time involvement. We're open 3 days a week after April. That would be the main issue since I see that insurance means open 5 days a week.
We can't use our client list to solicit for insurance unless the client gives us permission; that's an IRS rule, but an agent in our office will get more questions than can be answered because people are confused or overpaying or not insured at all.
I'm going to try to get started with health insurance because of ACA (Obamacare). Maybe try to form a relationship with a local insurance group.
It's not cost effective if we sign up the client for insurance and spend a lot of time with them and they stop paying the premiums early. Oh well, for me that's the scary part.
agent14
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by agent14 »

D's makes valid points. Not to mention, if you obtain appointments, it can be difficult to keep the appointment unless you are able to satisfy the carriers with production / profitability / retention. Some carriers, such as Travelers, have become increasingly hostile toward insurance agents as of late, almost acting like the agents are captive. (Means the agent cannot sell for another company. State Farm agents are captive.) Their 2014 revised contracts that agents had to sign, actually has the wording in there that said agent agrees to: "sell on value, and not on price."

How would you like to spend 5 years building a $2 million dollar book with a carrier, only to have them terminate you for lack of production? Travelers is doing this now. And they have just reduced monoline home commission by 33%, and have reduced auto commission by 20%. If Travelers is successful at making their numbers, and forcing agents to sell for less commission, other carriers will most likely follow. So the outlook is lower commissions, with the same or greater work to earn them.

And we have not mentioned the parade of account reps coming in to your office, demanding more production every 3 months. As the original poster mentioned, the companies are offering their products through more and more channels, and yet expect their agents to sell more and more. Some even compete directly against the agents, such as Progressive and Travelers. And many of these same carriers, in addition to selling direct to the consumer, bypassing the agent, are also selling on price through Walmart.com and Buy.com. Yet they tell their agents to not sell on price.

As for health insurance, unless you can turn some really big numbers, I don't think the financial incentive is there to earn 5% commission.
beyert1
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by beyert1 »

Am I selling health insurance, to a degree yes. I don't like doing it because it is not worth the time and effort. The great and mighty one has taken away all incentive in selling health insurance with the website anyone can use. And, if you do get someone in your office who can't use healthcare.gov then they are on Medicaid and you are not going to get paid a cent for the 2 hours you just spent doing their quotes.

I have contracts with several healthcare companies and they don't even know what is going on at this point. I spent many hours training, lots of dollars getting certifications and advertising and I have yet to be paid on any of the health policies I wrote because the government has not paid the company yet. So, guess who is out of all of this? That is right, me. Does anyone care, nope.

As for doing insurance part time, come one. That is a new one. No it isn't, that is what is causing this industry to go downhill. The more people we have selling insurance the harder it gets for the dedicated and caring agent to make an honest living. The insurance business is going to be taken over by Wallyworld and their group of great people. Why? Because they have the marketing power and the ability to get to clients all the time. I have seen the companies represented by the company Wallyworld is using and guess what? I represent almost all of them. Guess who loses on this? That is right the agent.

The insurance companies don't care about the agent anymore they just care about selling. They use to take care of the agent, who took care of the client and pointed them in the right direction for getting the best coverage for the fairest premium. Now, the companies want to eliminate the agent and do it all online. Why? Because they can reduce the amount of coverage and reduce the premium. This makes the company look better because they have a low price and then they don't have to pay out as much on claims. They win all the way around.
detroitgirl2
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by detroitgirl2 »

Beyert, do you expect to cover your costs after the insurance companies pay you for the health policies you've written?

Thanks for your input. I'm sure no one is thinking about how long it could take to get paid. This is very good information because any employees would have to be paid if other arrangements were'nt made. They would not expect to wait on the insurance company to pay us.

I had not considered this.
beyert1
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by beyert1 »

Detroitgirl2 - Do I expect to cover my costs when I get paid? The answer is no. I spent so much time doing quotes for people who were going to be on Medicaid that I lost money because I was not working with paying clients. The amount I am going to get paid will cover about 25% of my costs (advertising, web page setup, mail out advertisement) and the money had to pay people to sell the programs. So, lets just say I will be out more than I made.
independent guy
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by independent guy »

Sales is about creativing value. I know its easy to be negative but you won't survive in this industry or any sales industry with convenient excuses to be miserable. Right now you have an impoverished mentality and you need to turn that around. My agency is mostly referral and I can hardly keep up with those. I know my industry and take time with my clients. Other agents around here seem to do neither and get very bitter when the cancellation form comes, thus sealing their fate. I don't know if you've taken any designation courses, but "Techniques for Prospecting: Prospect or Perish" by The American College is fantastic even if you aren't primarily a life/financial products agent.
Smalltownagent
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by Smalltownagent »

Detroitgirl2 - I was able to get this book for 1 times revenue, which is not normal I must say.

And with regards to Life and Health, I wrote about 30-35 policies on the ACA with the majority of those being on the Federal Exchange and I've been getting commission checks each month from BCBS. Thats strange why you haven't been paid yet Beyert1? And you are correct, it is a pain in the neck. I got better at determining those that were going to wind up going on Medicaid anyway. Usually within the first few minutes after a few questions I will direct them to call 1-800 Healthcare to get signed up.

Now I'm still dealing with issues every week (misplaced bills, letters from Healthcare.gov needing income verification, etc) but once I get these ironed out I think it will be worth it. It was a giant headache in the beginning, but it brought a lot of new business through the doors that I was able to solicit their P&C business fairly easily.
Sports_Agent
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by Sports_Agent »

For those thinking I am a Sales Manager for a Direct Writer, that is not the case. I was a direct writer for 18 years (Liberty Mutual) and have owned my own independent agency for 21 years. I have 6 agents in the office. We grew 20% last year (measured by commissions) and we maintained an excellent loss ratio.

The point I was trying to make is that attitude is very important. 40 years ago agents worried that internet sales would put us out of the business. Most every industry/business changes. We must change with it. If you constantly complain and make excuses, your negative thoughts will negatively effect your production. During the years I have found that if production was down my efforts were down also.

Good luck to you... but as you know... "Luck is when opportunity meets preparation."
d's insurance store
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by d's insurance store »

Sports_Agent wrote:For those thinking I am a Sales Manager for a Direct Writer, that is not the case. I was a direct writer for 18 years (Liberty Mutual) and have owned my own independent agency for 21 years. I have 6 agents in the office. We grew 20% last year (measured by commissions) and we maintained an excellent loss ratio.

The point I was trying to make is that attitude is very important. 40 years ago agents worried that internet sales would put us out of the business. Most every industry/business changes. We must change with it. If you constantly complain and make excuses, your negative thoughts will negatively effect your production. During the years I have found that if production was down my efforts were down also.

Good luck to you... but as you know... "Luck is when opportunity meets preparation."
No, I did not think you were a Sales Manager, you just sound like one with the inspirational chit chat about attitude being everything...and, by the way, your math is off a bit...40 years ago there was no internet to worry about. On line insurance marketing is a relatively 'new' development that has evolved into its current form only in the past 12 years or so.

You are correct that every industry, insurance included, must adapt to change. However, this current environment (still in a state of flux) will have some distinct winners and losers. My strongest point is that the traditional business model of a small, caring, informed and engaged retail insurance generalist, specializing in personal lines and small commercial, is a dying entity. The storefront office with a principal, perhaps a spouse or non-relative assistant and one or two producers just doesn't have enough financial oooomph given current conditions to be viable as a start-up or as a growing concern if already established. A 'successful' agency with those attributes can likely hang on for a number of years treading water, so to say, based on the inherent inertia conditions of that marketplace. So long as rates don't rise very much, a loyal and cared for client is more likely to stay and renew than seek rates elsewhere. Where the business model fails in in new biz growth to sustain a future that generates higher income.

Undeniably there will be exceptions to my blanket forecast. Agencies that are large through organic growth or acquiring the smaller, retiring agencies can certainly grow and sustain a generalist model. Agencies with specific targeted commercial risk categories will also thrive. Agencies in large metropolitan areas with concentrated populations of people can survive and prosper just by the law of large numbers. Shucks, even personal lines agencies that target a high value client base and specialize in catering to their needs with specific products can do all right.

But, that main street, storefront, 'trusted insurance advisor', chamber of commerce member, little league sponsor, church member, yellow page advertising, kindly guy or gal that had the Big 'I' plaque on the wall or window...that business is either dead or dying. And frankly, no amount of 'attitude' is going to change that. So please, stop with the motivational speeches about how a change in attitude is going to cure things for those stuck in that place. In a fast paced change environment, where conditions don't allow everybody to succeed through no fault of their own, there will be casualties.
beyert1
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by beyert1 »

I have spent the last 2 days re-quoting clients who have had coverage with me for several years. I told them when they emailed me that they had a very good rate and the coverage was quite exceptional. Of course they said they wanted to get a lower rate. I called and asked why and they said because their friends have a lower rate on their home policy and they feel they should be paying the same or, they felt with all of the insurance companies telling them on T.V. commercials how much lower their policies can be.

As I asked them what type policy their friend had and how much they were paying, they did not know and it was just lower than what they are paying. I asked which company they were with and they had no idea, they just knew it was lower. I informed them for me to do a comparative quote with what they have now and what their friends were covered for and paying, I would have to know who the policy was with. Of course this met with some attitude. After they found out the answer to the basic questions, I informed them what they were paying and showed them what coverage their friend had, I wish I could have seen the look on their faces, I bet they were priceless. Of course they were wondering how a policy could be different in coverage, this statement came from all of them - "I thought all home insurance policies were the same".

Again, our wonderful commercial people have not informed consumers that the premium is lower and the policy is different. And we wonder why we are losing business.

As for who is a sales manager and who is not, we need to realize our business is changing and change with it. I have made multiple attempts over the years and it is difficult to know what is going to happen. As for the internet being around 40 years ago, that is a good one but it really was but not available to the public. And as for my attitude, that is my business. I am using this forum to vent and not showing it to my clients.

My main point in this post is how we as Agents are being cast aside by the companies we fight to represent and sell for. I don't understand how they are trying to undermine us by selling directly to the client and then blaming us for not being able to get new business. I asked how these companies appoint insurance agencies attached directly to car dealers, home builders, realtors, mortgage companies and the like. The relationship with the Agent and client is going away quickly and we have to adapt. The general consumer is so use to Amazon, overstock and companies who sell on-line. They don't have to make face to face contact and they can get what they "need" at a "good, better or best" price and level of coverage. I just loved spending 2 days of my time going through and proving to my clients they have good coverage at a good premium. Now, it is my job to prove to clients they do have this but for them to just throw it out there is proving what is going wrong with this industry.
JimatJKD
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by JimatJKD »

There is a very interesting acticle in National Underwriter's PropertyCasualty360 Personal Lines Pro eNewsletter enititled "Are digital insurance sale alienating customers" about carriers chasing either the "price sensitive" shopper or the "peace of mind" customer and how it impacts results which I think adds to this discussion about the future of our business, our place in it, and made me feel encouraged to continue following our target customer for the long term. Link to article:

http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2014 ... =153393801
kevinraz
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Re: Why am I still an Agent?

Post by kevinraz »

After reading all of this I'm glad I made the switch to the company side years ago.

I started as a Farmers agent in the great state of Iowa. One of my early experiences was when Farmers put a moratorium on any new homeowners business in my area for a month or so while requiring the newer agents (like me) to continue to write auto business. At the time Farmers was pretty competitive if a household met their target market (30/60 for those ex FIG folks): between 25 & 69 years old, own your house, more than one vehicle & no claims.

However, we were absolutely not competitive on stand alone auto, but we had to keep putting auto count on the books to avoid getting our contracts canceled. When asked how we were to accomplish this the state manager said something like "simple - just increase your activity".

That was his reaction to almost any hurdle - work more. Went from Farmers to a bank agency in '99, left there after less than a year because they had commoditized insurance: it was all about "cheap, cheap, cheap". Went to large agency (300+ employess) and did pretty well but worked so hard in a difficult political environment that it was not worth the salary.

I've been on the company side for about 8 years now, most of that in commercial underwriting. I have a much better work/life balance, I'm respected for my abilities and there's so much commercial opportunity out there that if something starts to become a hassle to quote I shut it down and move on to the next account. I'm the leading production underwriting for my company and am compensated fairly and management notices all of our contributions towards the growth of the company.
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