Attorney considering CPCU- thoughts?

[jctwindad]

I am a 56 year old owner of an Independent Insurance agency. When in college in the mid 70s I thought I wanted to be an attorney. Got into law school and hated it. Kept sticking it out for 2 years before finally quitting, before getting a degree. My problems were (1) I did not like law. Thought it was boring. Too much research of old cases. (2) The money was not that great. My options were to go to work for a large firm making OK money, but I would be stuck in their library researching their cases for them (boring), or go out on my own. Neither option appealed to me. I had friends who were insurance agents, so I tried it, and have never looked back. Today, I own my own agency (18 employees), work mainly in Commercial Insurance, make around $350,000 per year, and could sell my agency for around $3,000,000. I work about 30 hours a week, and answer to no one.

Your posts indicate that you are thinking of getting into claims or underwriting. I would urge you to consider sales. As an attorney, you probably have good communication skills, are smart, can think on your feet, etc. Just the skills needed for insurance sales. As long as you are motivated, don't give up easily, etc., you could make significantly more money in sales than in claims or underwriting.

I would urge you to look for a sales position in an agency where you could pursue business insurance sales, and eventually work your way into ownership. You cannot make the money that I make, or live that lifestyle unless you are an owner. It may take you 8-12 years of working as a sales person before you get the ownership potential, but be sure it is there.

Stephen Bryant, CPCU, CIC, LUTCF, AAI

[michga11]

Some here call it "alphabet soup" and I'm *guess those same individuals scoff at the time spent in college to earn a degree.

*guessing

knowledge is power. however, experience is experience and a designation is just a designation. if you have an insurance license, then you should know that there is constant learning going on. it doesn't end. ever evolving and continuously changing. that's with or without a designation.

p.s. attorneys are god awful pieces of...
;=)

[tiff-laws]

Try to be specialized in your field .Personal injury attorneys are doing very well these days

[John J90]

I have also studied for the CPCU and recommend it. It will be a reflection of your dedication to the industry. It is time consuming though. It is very interesting to hear a lot of people start the exams but do not end up taking all eight exams to finish. But it is not your only option, consider the ARM as well.

[lawyevara]

If choose between ARM and CPCU I'd choose the latter ast gives you more options (imo, sure)

[tkishore123]

I spent this year on education and books like the CPCU which is 5 feet from me right now, was recovered in 8 days of work. But the knowledge gained is still being used.

[armanis500]

Hello. I am currently looking to take the CPCU 530 Business Law Exam and was wondering if anyone knows of an AUDIO book/ study guide which I can use to study? I would be very much grateful if anyone has any suggestions. Thank you!

[Some Old Nobody]

I am also an attorney chipping away at the CPCU designation. Unlike the person who started this conversation, I have 20 years experience under my belt. I have also been board certified by my state bar in my area of specialization for over 10 years.

One of the main reasons I am pursuing the designation relates to the nature of my practice. The laws in my state in my area of specialty have changed dramatically, and knocked the snot out of what was once a very robust arena of litigation. I like what I do, but I have kids to feed and I need to have a good alternative plan. Strange as it may sound, I like insurance and I believe the CPCU (as the mack daddy of the IIA designations) will open some doors and enable me to transition to a second career, if need be. I am hopeful it will enable me to market more effectively and branch out into some other areas of practice. My plan is to complete the CPCU and then get the ARM. Ideally, I will be able to appeal to clients by showing that I know about their business as well as my own. Lots of lawyers out there, and a far less number of CPCUs. Very few people who are both.

[InsuranceVet]

I think it's always wise to think ahead and be prepared for multiple opportunities and interests which may come along. I have several professional designations (including CPCU), and am nationally recognized an a instructor in CE programs, having taught these for CPCU and other professional designation programs for several years. I would encourage you to pursue CPCU, but keep in mind that historically, the CPCU designation has dwelled on various insurance-related principals and theories; other designations are more "practical information" focused. If your ultimate goal is to become a Risk Manager, I believe your legal experience will be welcomed, and I think having one or mroe insurance professional designations would be impressive to accompany your legal experience, as well. Frankly, if you can pass the bar exam, you should be able to easily pass any insurance professional desgination examination, as well.

Through the Risk Insurance Management Society (should be a local chapter near you), you could network with Risk Managers and get advise and invaluable input from these individuals. You'll see that many are just buyers of insurance, but there are some who erally do manage risk, including the enterprise risk approach to risk management. I hope this feedback is benefical to you - good luck as you proceed!

InsuranceVet

[AssociatePI]

Definitely go for it! Especially since the CPCU 530 is one of the more difficult exams. You'll have no problem crushing the CPCU 520 if you're already used to the exam format. I actually work with a lawyer right now, he was a prosecutor for a couple years and now he's a happy homeowners analyst!

[RiskManaged]

It might be helpful to consider the type of insurance you would like to get involved with. I have the RPLU and am half way through the ARM. I was also considering the CPCU but for the type of insurance I concentrate on: Professional, cyber and mgmt liability, I have the impression it may be the least helpful for me. I know a few attorneys that have their RPLU and bring a LOT of value to the table with their law degree, especially if they have particular legal experience in that field. It was a great program and helped me a lot...it also has a great community thats very supportive (with some great seminars and speakers): PLUS society (http://www.plusweb.org). But it would obviously only be appropriate if that is your intended focus. The ARM is great in helping to explain risk mangagement concepts in general and getting you to think about alternative solutions to risk transfer (outside of i surance solutions).

[girardta]

I'm not saying these things to be mean, or to denigrate you - just trying to keep it 100.

If you're 33 and still handling dinky slip-and falls, I'd say either you did not graduate from a very prestigious school of law, or your grades sucked, or both. Forget the CPCU - in the insurance business, it stands for "can't produce, can't underwrite". Someone seeing it on your resume may think, "That's nice" but it won't sway them one way or the other. And very little of what you learn with a CPCU has scant applicability to working in the real-life insurance business.

You should look to hire on as an entry level claim adjuster with a major insurance company, or look for a small firm that specializes in insurance and is willing to train. Don't expect a lot of money for either position. Be prepared to show a prospective law firm employer an example of your legal writing, if you have any, which I doubt you do.

Maybe you should consider handling DUI's and speeding tickets - you can make a good living doing this type of grunt work.

I'm retired after having spent 40+ years in the insurance business as an underwriter, broker and adjuster. I got a CIC designation and my employer didn't even acknowledge it, let alone promote me or give me a raise. Tried getting out of insurance and into IT, and gained the "coveted" Certified Network Administrator and Certified Network Engineer designations. The first question employers asked was, "What experience do you have?" "Well, I said, I have the designations ...." "That's nice. Next." So I made my way back into insurance where I could find a job and make a decent living.

Good luck.

[awest16]

I'm not saying these things to be mean, or to denigrate you - just trying to keep it 100.

If you're 33 and still handling dinky slip-and falls, I'd say either you did not graduate from a very prestigious school of law, or your grades sucked, or both. Forget the CPCU - in the insurance business, it stands for "can't produce, can't underwrite". Someone seeing it on your resume may think, "That's nice" but it won't sway them one way or the other. And very little of what you learn with a CPCU has scant applicability to working in the real-life insurance business.

You should look to hire on as an entry level claim adjuster with a major insurance company, or look for a small firm that specializes in insurance and is willing to train. Don't expect a lot of money for either position. Be prepared to show a prospective law firm employer an example of your legal writing, if you have any, which I doubt you do.

Maybe you should consider handling DUI's and speeding tickets - you can make a good living doing this type of grunt work.

I'm retired after having spent 40+ years in the insurance business as an underwriter, broker and adjuster. I got a CIC designation and my employer didn't even acknowledge it, let alone promote me or give me a raise. Tried getting out of insurance and into IT, and gained the "coveted" Certified Network Administrator and Certified Network Engineer designations. The first question employers asked was, "What experience do you have?" "Well, I said, I have the designations ...." "That's nice. Next." So I made my way back into insurance where I could find a job and make a decent living.

Good luck.

I think the point the OP was making is that he did not graduate from a prestigious school and that is one of the reasons he had a hard time finding a job that was worth his while. Also entry level claims adjusters do not make that much money depending on where you want to end up. If you want to be a field adjuster those tend to make more money. I wonder though, have you tried opening up your own firm? Renting out a small office and taking on a few cases shouldn't be too expensive. Also if you take on PIP cases you should make plenty of money.