Should I stay or should I go?

[oldinsgirl]

I just would like an honest opinion......

I have been in the industry for 28 + years. An Agent for 20 of those years. I recently moved to another State half way across the country. I decided I might want a change and worked as an Underwriter for a pretty big Company. Not for me so I went to one of my Independents and he told me of a new start up Agency looking for someone.

I started almost two years ago and now I am a bit sorry. I have a book of about $575,000 after two years. Getting a good split on commission, when I get it! I also am acting as CSR, Manager, ect. So I was promised a salary also. After about 3 months I was given an increase that never showed up on my check. I asked for several months but still nothing. I then confronted the "president" of the agency. She did not remember giving me an increase. I found the documentation, that was written on a stickey note, and was accused of lying about it. So a couple more weeks went by, and then she realized that she had not submitted the increase to the payroll department and paid me along with back pay. Now this week she has "forgotten" the commission break down. I have been paid the same commission for 2 years and all of a sudden she forgets. I went to the owner of the Agency and he made it right. How long do I stay and be called a cheat and lyer? What will be next?

[Big Dog]

It sounds like this agency put nothing in writing (i.e. a contract that stipulates your commission split, salary, etc.).

Several things to address. First, if you leave, who owns the book of business? You or the agency? Second, before leaving, your concerns should be addressed by the owner of the agency. His "president" seems to be quite forgetful in any sort of commitments she makes to the employees. You may also want to discuss putting in writing (i.e. a contract) your salary, commission, bonuses, etc, and who owns the book of business should you decide to leave. This will protect all parties.

I worked for someone similar who promised a raise after six months. He wrote in on a sticky note and put it in my personnel file. When I reminded him of it when the time came, miraculously the sticky was gone. There were other (ethical) issues I had with this agency, and elected to move on. All that to say that, if I were in your position, I would seriously consider looking elsewhere.

[oldinsgirl]

Thanks for the advice Big Dog. I think I know in my heart, yes I have one, that it is time to move on. It seems that it is always something each week. I have asked for a contract, or at least something in writing, but to no avail. So if we have no contract or anything in writing, is there anything that keeps me from taking my book? I don't really feel that there is an ethical thing here as my customers would be the one that would suffer, and I do believe they would leave anyway.

[Big Dog]

Without a contract, there's nothing that legally says you do or don't own the book of business. That being said, this agency could still file a legal action against you (groundless, albeit, but enough to cause you some trouble).

I'd suggest checking with legal counsel first before making the jump, just to protect yourself, and your clients.

[oldinsgirl]

What a tangled web we work in! Thanks for the info. I believe this will be an uphill battle.......... :(

[Big Dog]

that's why I got out of working in the insurance agency/brokerage and company side, and went to work on the client side in their risk management department. Burned one too many times...

[Shagster12]

Oldinsgirl,

I agree with Big Dog. Check with council first but I recommend you get out as soon as possible. The biggest problem I had in a similar situation is that you spend so much time and energy trying to 'manage' the problems within the agency that you lose the time and energy to devote to your clients that they deserve!
As far as ownership of the book your clients will be the best guage, call a couple of your favorites when you're ready to make the move and ask them for their endorsement. I bet they'll be more than happy to do so and will want to go with you wherever you go. THAT will be all the proof you need that you're doing the right thing!
Good luck!

[scott]

I've written it here before, insurance consulting is the best job in this industry.

I make a great income. I set my own hours. My clients seek me out and appreciate my work because of the value I provide.

I don't worry about markets, underwriters, premium increases, or commission cutbacks. I work from my home in a beautiful, comfortable office.

My clients see me as an adviser - not a salesman. I provide my clients with valuable insight and information.

I'm glad to talk with you oldinsgirl.

[gregcw]

Without a contract, there's nothing that legally says you do or don't own the book of business. That being said, this agency could still file a legal action against you (groundless, albeit, but enough to cause you some trouble).

I'd suggest checking with legal counsel first before making the jump, just to protect yourself, and your clients.

oldinsgirl,

I disagree with Big Dog. The Agency Principal does, legally, own the book of business without something, in writing, that says otherwise . They PAID you, however poorly, inconsistenly or differently from their verbal communications or promises to you, to produce that book of business for them.

Without a non-compete / non-piracy agreement or contract the agencies renewals are still a "TRADE SECRET" for Names, Addresses, Phone Numbers and personal information, types of policies and companies placed with; that you cannot 'solicit' from a "LIST". I got this information when I had a producer leave me to "do something else" The 'something else' was to start a scratch agency. Since we did not have a non-compete / non-piracy agreement I had to rely on my client list being a trade secret and I did threaten legal action. Her agency did eventually starve to death.

Although your situation sounds different from the one that I had with my producer, whom I had discussed making a principal, they do still own the renewals. You might want to open some negotiations with your Principal and remember to get all agreements in writing with a signature to keep memory from failing.

You are able to contact your customers ONCE to advise them of your new employment situation but not allowed to contact them from a LIST, which is the property of your previous employer. You have to contact them from memory so use the telephone directory for addresses and do not send them anything at a PO Box address.

[Shagster12]

Oldins...
In a similar situation, although I HAD a non-solicit in place, 80% of my clients contacted me after the severence of my employment via my personal cell phone number which I freely gave out over the years as my agency did not provide me with one. Since the clients called and came to me I never called them during the 1 year term of the non-solicit so was not in conflict with my agreement.
And while some of the clients stayed it is now over a year later and I would estimate 80% of my clients are once again with me at my new agency and best of all it was by their choice not any solicitation efforts on my part. The client is always free to choose where to be insured....

[jctwindad]

GregC may have a valid point, based on state law where he lives, but that is not the case in most states. Without an Employment Agreement which states that accounts written belong to the agency, and/or a Non Compete or Non Solicitation Agreement, there is absolutely nothing to prohibit you from calling on your previous clients, and taking their business to a new agency.

I have been on this Forum enough to know that there will be comments posted that say this is unethical and dishonest. I am an agency owner of a large agency, as well as a CPCU and CIC. I am also a law school graduate, so I tend to look at things from a legal viewpoint. In my opinion, there is nothing unethical or dishonest about contacting your accounts and taking them, if you had no legal contract in place to prohibit such actions.

The people who scream the loudest about this will be agency owners who are too lazy or cheap to put legally binding Agreements in place to prohibit contact. Most of these owners know that if they place restrictions like this on a Producer they will have to pay them more, and they are unwilling to do so. Then they think that they can "bluff" a Producer with legal action. In virtually every state, the agency owner will lose that battle. Finally they will say this is unethical. I tell you what is unethical - it is unethical to tell a client that they can't do business with a Producer that they want to do business with, when there is no legal Agreement in place, and it is unethical to prevent a Producer from earning a living when there is no Agreement in place.

Come on Agency Owners. Grow up. If you want to protect your interests, be willing to do it with a legally binding Agreement in place, and spend some money to do it. Otherwise, stop complaining.

[wlunday]

jctwindad makes some good points. But, the original post asked about an "honest opinion", not an law graduate's version of legal ethics... so I don't agree with jctwindad on several points.

That said, he's right about the issues of running a clean business, treating the staff producers appropriately and paying them properly as well. Besides having protections for the agency owners, a properly written employment contract spells out the benefits for the employee, too.

It is quite apparent that oldinsgirl was not allowed this luxury. I feel her situation is a rare exception to the rule. Most agency owners respect their employees and their bottom line, and will take the time to protect both.

jctwindad, you are right to suggest that a lazy or sloppy businessowner has it coming!

Swymmer