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Zip Codes crush Credit Scoring?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:37 pm
by darnovak
Yes, your Zip Code is a far better indicator of your potential for loss than your credit score. Driving records and CLUE are now deemed worthless as underwriting tools. The USPS has been declared infallible. The evidence that Zip Code has any relevance whatsoever to risk potential has got to be the greatest piece of research ever conducted - I can't wait to see the study in print. Silly me, the study is probably secret. But wasn't it produced as evidence at the lawsuit mentioned in a recent article in IJ ? What's the next underwriting platinum bullet going to be? Eye color?
Length of toes? Genetic testing/screening? Personally, I like "favorite color" and "favorite breakfast cereal".
Has anyone else noticed that with "Personal Financial Management" being used as a major factor in rating, almost everyone (except those with "scores" at the very tippy top) are paying a lot more? Investment rates are low - the money has to come from somewhere....... money doesn't grow on trees, it flies out of pockets. regards, Dar Novak AAI

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:49 am
by LICA Agent
CA has just made a major change in rating personal auto coverage. ZIP Codes can no longer be a primary factor in rating calculations as I understand .

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:08 pm
by CATHIEA
Zip codes have been a factor to the rate setting process for as long as I can remember and I've been in this business for 30+ years. The number of accidents or thefts that occur within a zip code add weight to the base rate - of course all that is based on the belief that the majority of accidents / thefts occur within 3 miles of the insured's residence. Higher crime areas have always been rated higher along with those that have heavily traveled interstates. We've already had the discussion on credit scoring so I'm not going to comment on that again. Just keep in mind that the data has to come from somewhere to set the rates and if those of you who live in nice suburbs don't mind paying the same high rate as those who live in major metro areas, god bless you and I have some nice waterfront property to sell.

Zip Codes

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:56 pm
by darnovak
Sorry, during my 35+ year career in the P&C business I have to confess I have never worked for an insurance carrier setting rates. My post was pure sarcasm. I apologize to the geniuses that invented credit scoring (personal financial management), use of zip codes, use of eye color, and/or whatever arcane statistic they choose to force higher premiums on policyholders/drivers/insureds that have clean licenses and clean loss histories. They live among us. The same genre of geniuses recently did the following in my neighborhood: About a half mile from where I live, a major route had a lot of roadwork done. As you approach the worksite from the West proceeding Eastbound you are driving on a two lane (undivided) road with a permanently posted speed limit of 30 mph. At the legal distance of x,000 or x00 feet before the "Work Zone" itself, there is a special sign notifying you of roadwork ahead. Immediately after this sign is another sign displaying "reduced speed ahead". Get ready to slow down eh? As you enter the "Work Zone", you see the "Work Zone" sign with a speed limit sign immediately below it showing 35 mph. Exactly where the "Work Zone" begins, the road widens to a four lane divided highway with a permanent posted speed limit of 40 mph. Now if the "reduced speed" sign was at the point where it normally would have been 40 mph I could understand. Notifying motorists the speed is reduced ahead and then increasing it takes real thinking. They live among us and they are in control. Just a warning. regards, Dar Novak

Re: Zip Codes

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:38 am
by etimer
Yes they do live among us. There is a problem within the decision making circle. Somewhere along the line, somebody determined that having two things make a good decision maker:

1. A piece of paper saying you graduated college
2. Good grades from that college

I've known a few professors that are brilliant in their line of work but couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. I am sure the profs had great grades in school but lack something that is needed so badly in the real world COMMON SENSE.

Here is a prime example of the weird hiring tactics:

At an agency I brokered business was a 45 year old man, at the time was in the business for over 20 years and had been running his own small agency. One day in a trade magazine he saw an attractive / lucrative, help wanted ad form an insurance company. At the time of the ad he was a bit tired of the day to day running of the agency and made a call about the job. He talked to the person hiring for quite a while and they were impressed with his experience, his sales acumen and were excited to meet with him. Then the question was asked, which college did you graduate from? He answers, I didn't because I went into insurance a few years out of high school. He hears from the other person, oh....that is a problem, you need a degree for this job. The agency asks, "a degree in what?" The other person said, "A degree in anything...you just need a degree." So the agency owner hangs up the phone and spends the next 15 years running his agency, sold it for a handsome sum and retired.

How many times does the above story play out in this world. Companies pass up something that is good, someone who is already knowledgeable in the field, someone who has common sense? They would rather hire the professor as he tries to find his way out of that paper bag. So we end up with situations making us scratch our heads, "what were they thinking?"
In today's society a number, a grade, a credit score is supposed to be an indicator of who were are and what we do.

I guess to day we would not have a Franklin Roosevelt because he had a "C" average in college but we would go for Nixon because he graduated second in his class. So what we have is a world of predictors that really have nothing to do with people. How nice?

darnovak wrote:Sorry, during my 35+ year career in the P&C business I have to confess I have never worked for an insurance carrier setting rates. My post was pure sarcasm. I apologize to the geniuses that invented credit scoring (personal financial management), use of zip codes, use of eye color, and/or whatever arcane statistic they choose to force higher premiums on policyholders/drivers/insureds that have clean licenses and clean loss histories. They live among us. The same genre of geniuses recently did the following in my neighborhood: About a half mile from where I live, a major route had a lot of roadwork done. As you approach the worksite from the West proceeding Eastbound you are driving on a two lane (undivided) road with a permanently posted speed limit of 30 mph. At the legal distance of x,000 or x00 feet before the "Work Zone" itself, there is a special sign notifying you of roadwork ahead. Immediately after this sign is another sign displaying "reduced speed ahead". Get ready to slow down eh? As you enter the "Work Zone", you see the "Work Zone" sign with a speed limit sign immediately below it showing 35 mph. Exactly where the "Work Zone" begins, the road widens to a four lane divided highway with a permanent posted speed limit of 40 mph. Now if the "reduced speed" sign was at the point where it normally would have been 40 mph I could understand. Notifying motorists the speed is reduced ahead and then increasing it takes real thinking. They live among us and they are in control. Just a warning. regards, Dar Novak

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:16 pm
by houstonagent
Where is this world leading us to?? Next thing we know Bin Laden will have something to do the way we quote our clients and effect the premium