Insurance Noodle

cynsationalinswoman · Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:36 pm

<span style='color:purple'>My limited take on the noodle is from brief experience in agencies w/out ability to obtain appt w/ the carriers they provide. Main problem is the retailers inability to provide needed info for rating or entering "guesses" to fill the profile. Then they get a quote, find info not correct, get an uprate, client irate, etc.

I would far rather deal with Networked Ins. Agencies, but I can't slam the Noodle w/ any specific complaint.

Superior Access - their website does have good tools for evaluation of account acceptability in markets that can then be submitted elsewhere. I wouldn't use them other than to use them for benchmarking.

Bottom line, get the right info, try the right markets and don't whine.</span>

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:56 pm

Some risks are just inherently not going to fit into the standard markets in many states. When I come across a risk, I see if it will fit into a standard market and BOP it if its appropriate. Sometimes I know from experience that it will, other times I may have to email my assigned contact at insurance noodle and ask. If it fits, then I submit with all of the correct information. Although I am getting a slightly less commission, since it is not an agency direct appointment, here in California I can charge a broker fee. That more than makes up for the difference. If it doesn't fit, like most contractors or risks that just by their nature are destined for surplus lines, I'll then go to other markets through a General Agent.

JSJAG, some risks just by their nature are not going to fit into the appetite of the standard carriers. That can change as the market softens. When they don't, just find another home for it.

cynsationalinswoman · Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:28 am

<span style='color:purple'>So, you charge a broker fee when you go through the Noodle. On admitted company in CA. Are you charging for the extra keystrokes? Have you read the broker regulations on when & how you can charge a fee? Oh yeah, the wording can be ambigous, but bottom line is that broker fees are for when an agent goes beyond the normal routine necessary to simply "place coverage". Are you providing anything beyond that?

Just a friendly FYI w/ our resident uneducated idiot Garamendi on the warpath, take a look on IBA West for example and they have docs on broker fees. If all you are doing is providing a market to obtain coverage, the justification of "I'm just not making enough commision" won't cut it.

Don't take my word for it, check it out. When you look thru it tell me if you don't come to same conclusion as it re-iterates that broker fees are for services that are not related to simply finding a market to place coverage. </span>

JSJAG · Post by **JSJAG** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:54 am

Rob I know that not all will fit in the standard market. I guess I'm a bit peeved at the industry. For the past 19 years I've written a lot, lot, lot of small carpenters. You know the guy that comes and builds your new back porch type of guy. My experience has been that claims were very, very low, These type of guys aren't general contractors with their many varied risks but now ....nobody will write them. This week I received three requests to quote. I did have a local agency I use tell me that they could go out of the standard market and the min. premium will be $4,500. A $4,500 premium is not even an option for these guys.

Because of insurance costs in America, your start up business guys will not exist. It presents a future where the American dream is dead, the dream of being able to open your own business, work hard and grow your business.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:13 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cynsationalinswoman @ Nov 6 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So, you charge a broker fee when you go through the Noodle. On admitted company in CA. Are you charging for the extra keystrokes? Have you read the broker regulations on when & how you can charge a fee?

[/quote]
Yes, cynsationalinswoman, I have read them, apparently you haven't. They apply to personal lines insurance. My post was referring to commercial lines. When advising a commercial lines customer, placing coverage with a company that you are not directly appointed with and servicing that policy, charging a broker fee is both legal and standard practice. Section 2189.1 clearly states that the regulations only apply to policies as defined by Insurance code 660 and 675, which exclude all commercial policies. And no I'm not charging for the extra keystrokes, wisenheimer. Writing a commercial policy and advising a business on their exposures can be much more time consuming than in personal lines.

JSJAG, what state are you in?

CompPro · Post by **CompPro** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:59 pm

Rob, I see that you are still actively atvertising for Ins. Noodel. It is amazing to me that anyone would read your posts and believe that you are not somehow either on their payroll or without enough business of your own, allowing you the time to publish lapdog, thinly veiled marketing for someone you don't know. You must think we are all stupid. I recognize a PR weenie when I read/hear one.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:00 pm

Compro, I have enough business to keep me busy, but I also actively participate in these forums and on subjects where I have the knowledge. This is where agents can come, exchange ideas or get help. I am in no way affiliated with insurance noodle. Your diatribes about insurance noodle are just based on ignorance and since I am more informed on this subject than you are, I feel it necessary to give equal time so that people can get a fair and balanced report, especially to agents/brokers who are in the same position as me.....no major appointments and the necessity to place business. Yes, I have established a relationship with insurance noodle using their services as a broker. I also know and have spoken to people, both in the new business dept and upper management there and the last thing they want is to deal with customers directly and nearly always refer them to an agent in the customer's area. In fact, zero percent of their marketing budget is put towards marketing to businesses directly. I don't think anyone is stupid (except weenies who can't spell Noodle) and I would gladly provide my office number and talk to anyone in this forum which would prove I'm not part of insurance noodle. For the record, I didn't start this topic and I'm just trying to offer suggestions to other agents who are in the same position as myself, something you have failed to do.

Rob Winter
Golden State West Insurance Services
Sacramento, CA 95815
(916) 830-1042 ext 104

ewguva · Post by **ewguva** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:23 pm

I still cant understand why you would go through the pain and suffering of completing a 10, 15 or 30 minute application online if you arent getting a bindable quote back in the same amount of time.

Please explain to me what is so great about the Noodle or Superior Access when neither of them can give you REAL TIME multi-carrier quotes?

Why not complete an Acord application in your management system and fax it to these aggregators? They're re-inputting the information you type into their online applications.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:30 pm

As a small agency, unfortunately I don't have a sophisticated management system that will zip out an acord to multiple carriers. Second, the online application is actually less cumbersome than an acord. Third, it will be considered by multiple carriers. Fourth, I'm not aware of any wholesalers that will give instant, accurate multiple quotes without a broker fee and without charging an arm and a leg up front or wanting an application fee up front and if they don't take you, you lose the fee.

fcis1 · Post by **fcis1** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:26 pm

I agree with Rob, i have used Noodle hear in NC for last 3 years, never had a problem with them. I have moved on to a bigger agency now so i dont have to use them that much anymore since we represent most of their carriers,

jamesclark · Post by **jamesclark** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:43 pm

Who picks up the E&O if there is an issue with the policy?.

ewguva · Post by **ewguva** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:19 am

Real time rating in 5 mintues or less from 6 national carriers is currently available. If you want to see how this works go to http://www.agentsecure.com.

As far as I know they are the only online comparative rater that returns quotes in real time.

By the way, errors and omissions are the responsibility of the negligent party. If it's the retail agent who screwed up then the agency takes the hit. If it's the wholesaler, then their E&O policy responds.

cynsationalinswoman · Post by **cynsationalinswoman** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:16 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rob @ Nov 8 2004, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cynsationalinswoman @ Nov 6 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So, you charge a broker fee when you go through the Noodle.Â On admitted company in CA.Â Are you charging for the extra keystrokes?Â Have you read the broker regulations on when & how you can charge a fee?Â

[/quote]
Yes, cynsationalinswoman, I have read them, apparently you haven't. They apply to personal lines insurance. My post was referring to commercial lines. When advising a commercial lines customer, placing coverage with a company that you are not directly appointed with and servicing that policy, charging a broker fee is both legal and standard practice. Section 2189.1 clearly states that the regulations only apply to policies as defined by Insurance code 660 and 675, which exclude all commercial policies. And no I'm not charging for the extra keystrokes, wisenheimer. Writing a commercial policy and advising a business on their exposures can be much more time consuming than in personal lines.

JSJAG, what state are you in? [/quote]
(a) The provisions of this article apply to all transactions and services performed by fire and casualty broker-agents acting in the capacity of an insurance broker for applicants, policyholders, or other consumers of an insurance coverage described in Insurance Code sections 660 or 675.

Gee Rob, see above the lead in to the articles on broker fees. Guess "all transactions" translates into only personal lines in your world. I may be a wisenheimer but that's better than the terminal stupids.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:02 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cynsationalinswoman @ Dec 4 2004, 08:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>(a) The provisions of this article apply to all transactions and services performed by fire and casualty broker-agents acting in the capacity of an insurance broker for applicants, policyholders, or other consumers of an insurance coverage described in Insurance Code sections 660 or 675.

Gee Rob, see above the lead in to the articles on broker fees. Guess "all transactions" translates into only personal lines in your world. I may be a wisenheimer but that's better than the terminal stupids.[/quote]
I won't stoop to your level and call you a terminal stupid, cynsationalinswoman. However, you are clearly ignorant of the facts. The California Dept of Insurance Broker Fee regulations apply to PERSONAL line only. See link below which is a summary of the regulations straight from the Dept of Ins website. Under section 1 "Applicability". It states and I quote "1. APPLICABILITY
The regulations apply only to personal lines.

<a href='http://www.insurance.ca.gov/LGL/Regulat ... ummary.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.insurance.ca.gov/LGL/Regulat ... ary.htm</a>

Again, under section 2189.1 of the actual regulations, it states that it applies to all transactions described in sections 660 or 675. THAT IS THE KEY STATEMENT "applies to all transcations described in sections 660 or 675" Now go to 660 here: <a href='http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =660-669.5' target='_blank'>http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 0-669.5</a> and it clearly states that a "Policy" means an automobile liability, automobile physical damage, or automobile collision policy, or any combination thereof. Go to section 675 here: <a href='http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =675-679.7' target='_blank'>http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 5-679.7</a> and this refers to personal property and CLEARLY states that commercial property is not applicable to this definition.

Finally, I've had two attorneys who specialize in insurance matters advise me on this.

I've sited my sources. The sources refer to certain sections of the insurance code 660 and 675 and those sections spell out personal auto and non-business personal property ONLY.

So you are wrong and you haven't proven your case as I have. Differ if you will, however SITE YOUR SOURCE.

cynsationalinswoman · Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:00 am

My sources come from the dept of insurance, and the definitions of an agent vs. a broker relationship with the carrier. Also fom the markets giving the quotes, which confirmed to my boss that I was right in telling him he couldn't charge a broker fee in certain circumstances. And I don't site a source, I cite or reference a source. And mine come from the real world of placing business. I am all for charging a broker fee when it is deserved.

You seem perturbed, guess you think you know it all? The only way you can challenge a differing opinion is to sling insults? Forums are for intelligent discussion and exchange of opinion with the intention of broadening your knowledge.